Category: Jam Session
For the last six years, I've been using a cheap keyboard that I don't think will last much longer. I'm looking to buy a better one soon. I'm in a symphonic metal band, so it has to have good string/orchestra sounds as well as a good sound that I can use for solos. I'm also totally blind, so it has to be accessible. Any suggestions?
check out the yamaha S90xs or the Motif xs. or, if you want an awesome rig that you can load proper full libraries into, like vienna and ivory etc, then check out the boards that open labs offer. definetly a better value for the money, and, they are fully expandable and upgradable.
Thanks. I'll check those out.
Are those keyboards good for both performing and recording?
what do you mean by "recording". that is a broad term.
I've got an 8-track recorder from Tascam. I think it should work with that. But are they good with performance?
which board did you mean exactly. the Yamahas, or, the open labs. as far as performance, yes, both are fantastic. keep in mind though, a decent open labs system will run you between three and seven grand give or take. it's a fully functional studio in a keyboard. You can get a second hand motif or S90es for a good price. but then you have to consider computer specs and software etc. so, the real question is what's your budget and what sort of home studio and performance space are we talking about?
My budget is around 1500. I'd rather just buy the more expensive one now instead of getting another basic one so I won't have to spend more. And as far as performance, we're just going to be doing smaller gigs. Actually, we haven't gotten our first gig yet. That'll have to wait a while because we might replace some members. I'm using this time to shop for the new keyboard.
I think I saw an s90es on Craigslist for 1200, but I'm not sure. yOu should check and look around for cheap prices. I think you should go with a YAMAHA, since the Open labs stuff is REALY pricy.
One of the keyboards I had started to look at before I posted this topic was the YPG 535. I liked that one because its layout is similar to the one that I have now, just with more features. Does anyone know anything about that one?
And I think I'll probably buy used instead of new.
Yamaha S70 or 90XS keyboard is what you're looking for. It already comes with 18 minutes of recording space. it's a performance keyboard, definitely. IF you want to record, hook it up to your computer and use your software of choice if you want to sequence.
I found a Yamaha Motif XS8 for a great price. Is that one good?
Absolutely that's good! pretty heavy for a keyboard, but you'll get a studio out of the box with that keyboard. Get it while you can. THey're now discontinued so if you can find a good one that's cheeper, I'd say jump for it. i'm in the process of getting a mOtif XS6 myself for my studio.
Xs's kick ass. To bad they're discontinued, but they have a new XF, but it's soooo not worth it. Only a two gig expansion and 700 megs of waverom? Worksations are great for performance, but if you computer music, then get a soft synth like Omnisphere. I have an xs8 and it's amazing. The sounds are awesome. Great piano,s guitars, (the best I've heard from a keyboard or soft synth) great bases, and synth leads and pads.
A killer synth. So worth every penny. I'm not sure if the recording is accessible though. For that, I just use my DAW.
Also, the recording time of the s90xs, and motifs can be expanded if Dim chips are inserted, this would also allow you to sample sounds.
The xs also has a built in vocoder if you need it. O&Afan567, what DAW do you use?
Matt, i'm going to be using Sonar. To track vocals right now, I'm using adobe, but Sonar really soon, and once I go off to college and fix up my full studio, I'm planning to go with a protools rig, but that's not goign to be for a while. I have a Roland Juno G right now, and I 'm goign to get and XS6 soon. I totally agree with you about the Motif XF. I feel that The XF is a work station geared twoards the traveling musician who wishes to use samples on the road. I just don't think it's worth it. The freaking screens are layed out just like the XS. It's the same exact thing.
True. I'm a sonar user, but I'm a newbie to this music production buisness. The xf would be hard to travel with since it's as heavy as the xs.
Why do you need a Protools rig? It's only 50 percent accessible. Besides why do so many people go with protools. WHy not sonar, or reaper, or any other accesssible daw.
People say the xf has better samples then the Xs. Who cares. Just get Sonar, a controller if you need it, and a monster synth like Omnisphere, and your good to go. No gazillion dollar synth to buy.
Matthew
Well, true. Maybe because it's an indistry thing. But once i get Sonar completely working. I'll be working with Sonar for a while! A motif XS, my Roland Juno G, and Sonar, I'll be set. Especially since I know the Motif, I can make music away from the computer which really makes me happy. Glad to see you just got into this stuff. Keep it up. it's a lot of fun!
I can't record on the xs. It's really hard for me to remember how many times to push what button, etc. That's why I got sonar. I wanted to use it as a controler for Sonar's soft synths, and record in Sonar, since I can't do it on the motif.
I can help you out! You really get used to it man. I don't even own it, and still remember everytime I go to Guitar Center.
That's Amazing! Wish I could do that. Where'd you learn? By trial and error?
Mo access documents, remember the key layout and there you go.
Oh and your whole thing about having a controller and sonar? That's great too, I just hate hooking up my keyboard, evertime i want to make a track, you know> That's why I love the ease of use of the Motif, and i can sequence on there.
The only reason I use it as a controller is because of the fact that I can't remember the keystrokes. Where can I get the moaccess stuff? I've only found Motif Es help, not XS help.
I can post a link for you to download motif XS related files. Moaccess is now shut down till they start another site, but the e-mail list is still up. To join this e-mail list, go here.
http://www.freelists.org/list/moaccess
Thanks. I found the files via Brian Smart's sight. I'l join the list just in case.
yeah man. Definitely. it's a great list. nd good luck with everything. I want to hear what you do with your stuff.
i'l post if I make anything good.
Can someone tell me what does the Motif XF8 have that the older models don't?
All the keyboards, the XS8, XF8 are all 88 keys and heavy weighted keys like a piano. The most focused upgrade in the XF is flash boards. You can put up to two gigs of flash memory in your Motif, allowing you to keep samples, kits, and all that loaded. Unlike the motif XS, you can turn on your keyboard and all your sounds will be in there, and loaded. With the older models, you had to load all your samples in everytime you turned the board on. There are a few new sounds, you can also edit drums, I believe, and you have the Yamaha S6 grand piano as the main piano, which is a $250,000 grand from Yamaha that was sampled for the Motif. It's amazing. Make sure to look it up on Youtube.
Hope this helped.
Dan, Do you have one? Or have you just thouroughly read the specs. You sound like you have one and know all about it.
I wish I had one. I know about Motifs very well. i've done my research, have played with them several times, and love them. I really hope to get one. But I love the Motifs so that's why i know a lot about them.
Does anyone use the Phantom G8?
Yeah, pretty inaccessible if you're blind. Ifyou're trying to go for a work station, Motif is your best bet.
And is Cubase accessible?
No it's not but the Motifs work with Sonar which is accessible due to free or payed Jaws scripts. If your going for sonar, get 8.5 since x1 the latest version is inaccessible.
You can get the free scripts at Jsonar.org
Note that if you get the free scripts you will have to do a lot of research to find answers to your questions while CakeTalking (250 dollars) the payed scripts are more of a tutorial and teach you more.
I use Jsonar cause I don't mind the research.
Dan, I've fiddled with the g8 at GuitarCenter, and its inaccessible and pretty frustrating, while the Motif is very accessible. I wish I could remember all the button presses to get stuff done, but I can't so that's why I got Sonar.
Are the open labs boards a DAW and a keyboard in one?
Are the viena instruments accessible?
Just wondering.
Is Omnisphere accesible?
Omnisphere is amazing! I don't have it, but some of my friends have it and they sy it's pretty sweet. Note that it is a bit pricy (500) in my opinion. Yes, it is, if you get the Omnisphere .hsc set from Hotspotclicker.org. Note that when installing Jsonar, first in stall Sonar, then Hotspotclicker (which enables you to run various plug-ins) and then Jsonar. Hotspotclicker is completely free and can be gotten from hotspotclicker.org. I'm not sure if it will be accessible for you, since I've seen problems with the Omnisphere Hotspotclicker set and win xp, but maybe not, I'm just not sure.
Thanks for all the help. I still haven't decided for sure what I'll be getting, but I think it'll most likely be the Motif XF8. I'm just wondering if the XF8 is missing anything that the older Motifs have?
The es had some nice plg expansion boards that Yamaha discontinued, but other then that, your not missing anything. If you want to expand your xf even further, make sure to get some Dims and install them. They'l give you more RAM if I'm not mistaken.
And like i said, with the XF series you can buy flash boards and your samples stay in your board.
If you want to learn key presses, I can send you some text totorials, and also help you out. Like i said, I don't own the motif, but I know the board very well and am willing to help. But I'm glad you're using sonar as well... Very cool.
Na, Roland really made me angry with the Fantom G8... It was dumb.
I tried JSonar and all that stuff, and it's like i got an error. It doesn't work right for me... I have cake talking, just have been lazy to register it with my Jaws. Lol I can't wait to be using Sonar, though...
have you tried contacting the mailing list? Maybe they can help. I don't know much about errors. They say ct is pretty educational tutorial wise but I just got JSONAR because I didn't want to spend 250 dollars on a large amount of tutorial material. I'd rather look in help files then spend 250 on a screen-reader with a bunch of help built in. Jsonar works for me, and does all I need it to do. I need no more from it. This though is my personal experience. CT might fit others more then it does fit me. I love my xs, but just don't see much point in upgrading it to an xf. I still don't have the dims for it, and it just seems kinda lame that you have to have extremely specific dims to sample. They're also pretty pricy. Al the dims I have don't work, so I'd have to get from motifator which'd cost me about 100 or so. Ouch, for a gig of sample storage.
Where can I get the text tutorials?
google Bryan Smart, he's a tech support person if you go to bryansmart.com you will see one of his blog posts about Moacess. There will be a link for a zip file with all the motif xs xf es and classic audio tutorials and text tutorials. I aalso recomend puting braille labels next to buttons with sighted assistance. This might help you remember them, but maybe not. It sure helped me memorize all my buttons.
Matthew
There was one problem that I noticed when I was playing with the XF a few days ago at Sam Ash. Is there a way to sustain notes from one sound when switching to another or fade out one sound and fade in another?
Sorry, don't think so, unless you have a sustain pedal.
Besides the Motifs, are there any other accessible workstations out there?
You have the Open Labs stuff, about 6k (I don't have one nor do I need one) Basicaly a mix of a keyboard, touchscreen, and PC all in one. You can add DAW software like SONAR or something like that.
But can the touch screen be used by someone who is totally blind?
Nope, not yet at least.
And besides Sonar, are there any other accessible DAWs out there?
There's Reaper, I think it's about 60 dollars for a license but the big shiny version costs 220 if I'm not mistaken I know there's a set of JFW scripts, but i don't know where to get them. I think they're free. I bet if you just google reaper JAWS scripts you will find them.
Thanks for all the help. I'm definitely getting the Motif XF8. But I'm also looking for something smaller that I can take to smaller gigs. I think I might get the Casio CTK7000, but I haven't actually tried playing it. Has anyone used that one and if so, is it accessible? Also, what would be a good two tiered stand for the Motif? I had originally planned to get a platform stand, but I don't think it's long enough if I have the second tier attached.
I've used a wk1350 cassio which if I'm not mistaken is similar to the ctks. They seem pretty accessible to me. I'd just get a y-shaped stand, the one that can hold an 88-key keyboard. What do you mean by a two teared stand? You mean one that can hold an 88-key and a 61-key? If you mean that, then I really don't know, since I've never used a two teared stand
So I finally got the Motif XF8 and I love it! I decided to go with a platform stand and a universal second tier and so far it's working fine. Thanks for answering all my questions.
Your welcome, if you need any more help, just post and I'l try to help as best I can.
Matthew
Just wondering if anyone knows whether or not any of the Kursweil keyboards are blind-accessible? I wrote and E-mail to them, but never heard back. You would think they would be, given the dude's history, but I'm still trying to find out.
I was wondering about that, too. I was never able to find a store that had them, though. Are they still made?
I checked out wikipedia and it mentioned that Stevie Wonder was a Kurzweil user, so I assume that at least one of their models must be accessible. You can get more info at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurzweil_Music_Systems
I think they are. There is also an accessible editor called the tower editor (I think) which helps you use the keyboards with your DAW.
So for the past few months, I've been struggling to get my way through the Motif Manual whenever I can get someone to help me with memorizing my way through the menus. And it's not going very well. There's a lot of things in the manual that aren't very clear, so is there anywhere that I can find the key strokes?
John Melas makes jfw scripts for the XF editors. Also if you look on Moaccess and sign up for the mailing list, there will be folks there that will willing to help and give pointers. I agree, the manual for the xs for example says absolutely nothing about how the Motif runs with Sonar, only cubase, that's all they say. They have a whole chapter devoted to Cubase, but nothing to Sonar. Ah well, that's the case with most manuals.
Matthew
So I finally learned some of the basics on recording with my Motif. I can record my realtime performance to a track, but how do I record from an external source like a guitar or microphone?
Your best bet is MoAccess or the Motifator forums. There's a series of ipad apps which serve as remote editors for the Xf, if you have a USB wifi stick, they'l work with the XF. That's off topic, but I'm gonna test them for accessibility at some point, and I'l report back with my findings.
Matthew